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The Capital Riot on January 6th

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  • This is the danger of putting adherence to the party line above all ethical and moral codes. Once you instil that culture it is a hostage to the party line. And when you move your party line away from policy and into ragebait and culture war, you make that party line very easy for any populist to usurp.

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    • That was a really interesting article R_Squared - thanks for posting.

      You have to think how many people might have folded under that pressure and just given way. And with the guy's daughter dying inside his house at the same time, how on earth did he find the strength.

      It also feels quite likely that as he and others have been replaced by Trump loyalists now that 2020 might well have been the last free and fair election within the US. That is if Trump manages to escape prosecution and runs for office again in 2024. Whether one of the thickened walls of his arteries says "no more" might end up being the deciding factors on whether the US takes the 'next step' towards an authoritarian state or worse - I am afraid to reference Germany in 1930s (and I don't want to suggest the US would take the same path) but certainly in terms of a party 'holding it's nose and entering the senate', just to be able to dismantle the democratic functions of state once they take power, I think feels like a strong possibility at this point.

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      • I am afraid to reference Germany in 1930s
        Is it because the paralells are too on the nose, or is it because no one wants to admit the US has a high chance of sliding into the same kind of oppressive authoritarian regime they've fought 70 years ago? If one party quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and had it's own bierhalle putsch...

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        • It can happen here.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here


          Plot[edit]


          In 1936, Senator Berzelius "Buzz" Windrip, a charismatic and power-hungry politician from an unnamed U.S. state, enters the presidential election campaign on a populist platform, promising to restore the country to prosperity and greatness, and promising each citizen $5,000 per year. Portraying himself as a champion of "the forgotten man" and traditional American values, Windrip defeats President Franklin D. Roosevelt for the Democratic nomination, and then easily beats his Republican opponent, Senator Walt Trowbridge, in the November election.

          Although having previously foreshadowed some authoritarian measures to reorganize the United States government, Windrip rapidly outlaws dissent, incarcerates political enemies in concentration camps, and trains and arms a paramilitary force called the Minute Men (named after the Revolutionary War militias of the same name), who terrorize citizens and enforce the policies of Windrip and his capitalist regime. One of Windrip's first acts as president is to eliminate the influence of the United States Congress, which draws the ire of many citizens as well as the legislators themselves. The Minute Men respond to protests against Windrip's decisions harshly, attacking demonstrators with bayonets. In addition to these actions, Windrip's administration, known as the Corpo government, curtails women's and minority rights, and eliminates individual states by subdividing the country into administrative sectors. The government of these sectors is managed by Corpo authorities, usually prominent businessmen or Minute Men officers.

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          • I will have to give that a read it sounds interesting!

            Shinypixe - I am afraid to reference that because many people reading it immediately jump ahead to concentration camps and gas chambers and then rubbish any argument that the US is taking steps along that road. I think we can safely say that is the 'worst possible outcome' of a move to an authoritarian regime and that obviously the US is very far away from that moment right now. However, having studied what happened in Germany in the 1930s, where a democratic state with independent courts was effectively 'Trojan horsed' by Hitler & friends (that had a very similar path of managing to wrestle power via what was seen as a 'legitimate' obtainment of power, despite having a relatively low percentage of the vote) and then destroyed from the inside, you have to say there are some very worrying parallels with the US right now. The kind of comments we are reading from Republican politicians, who are now hanging on to Trump's coat-tails as a path to power and seem to have disregarded any and all pretence of maintaining the pillars of the democratic state, indicate to me that they recognise a democratic vote as an obstacle to be overcome and removed.

            We saw on Jan 6th even those politicians that supported Trump running in terror at the approaching mob, yet for some reason it doesn't appear to have changed their view, with many re-iterating their support of Trump and decrying attempts to prosecute him. It seems to me the equivalent of someone barely surviving a car crash after not wearing a seatbelt; they have a few moments of lying on the floor stunned, then jump straight back into the car and do it again, with no mindfulness at all their heads will almost certainly be the ones to go crashing through the windscreen again (ending suspended on spiked railings, or hanging from a tree branch) the next time it happens. The lack of emotional intelligence is quite remarkable to see.

            Comment


            • Shinypixe
              Shinypixe commented
              Editing a comment
              As BranDawri commented below, the kind of language GOP politicians and their pundits across the country use against LGBTQ+ people is sometimes verbatim the same the nazis used against their own enemies. The sentiment is. Some of the more...insane parts of the movement have already returned to calling to kill the people "corrupting the youth of the nation", and mainstream republicans have introduced and in some cases passed a slew of anti-lgbtq policies in individual states. All of this happened before the actual genocide started in Germany.
              You don't need black hugo boss suits and red armbands to have a hate-filled, physical-elimination-oriented political movement.

          • I think you can scratch out that emotional bit in the last sentence.

            I'm also nowhere near as confident that the US isn't heading down that path; the amount and type of anti-LGBT (trans in particular) rhetoric is much too reminiscent of the anti-jew propaganda the nazi's had going on.
            Pretty much the only thing they've changed is the public target.
            And other undesirables (black people, "leftists", atheists, and yes, jews too) all get conflated into the same group and thus become legitimate targets in their minds.
            It's honestly frightening.

            Comment


            • Jan. 6 rioter sentenced to nearly 4 years for assaulting police
              A Pennsylvania man who pleaded guilty to beating a police officer with a metal flagpole during the Jan. 6 riot was sentenced to 46 months in prison on Friday, the Department of Justice said.

              Driving the news: Howard Richardson, 72, repeatedly hit an officer at the Capitol using a flagpole with a Trump flag attached, federal prosecutors said. He also helped other rioters throw a "very large metal billboard" toward a line of officers that day, according to a video cited in the government's sentencing memorandum against him.
              • Richardson didn't stop striking the officer with the flagpole until it broke in his hands, the DOJ said.
              • They added that Richardson had wrongly told FBI agents he was carrying a "Back the Blue" flag — a pro-police symbol — on Jan. 6, and not the Trump flag.
              4 years and 3 of supervised release. Considering how old he is, that's probably a good chunk of the rest of his life.

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              • Secret Service was going to compel its people to testify when called by the committee. Dude who was at the center of J6, who called the one gal a liar for talking about Trump’s throat grab, has quit/retired just a couple days before he was supposed to appear under oath.

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                • BobtheInquisitor
                  BobtheInquisitor commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Can they still compel
                  Him to testify?

              • Is anyone else seeing a real distrust of the Secret Service forming? Almost everyone I know who isn’t a Trumper says they believe the SS is dirty and hiding its own involvement (or at least acceptance) in the attempted coup.

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                • Shinypixe
                  Shinypixe commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Something like half the SS (what an unfortunate acronym) is basically trump appointees I think.

              • How could you not distrust an agency that lost data on one of the most important days in its existence (given the presence of Pence in the building), for which they gave at least two different explanations?

                It might be all coincidental and no malice was involved, but that seed of doubt has been sown by the (at the very least) incompetent handling of vital data.

                It has all the energy of "the body cam was not working at the time of the incident".
                Last edited by Disciple of Fate; 08-30-2022, 06:09 PM.

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                • So, apparently Trump is now leaning hard into QAnon conspiracy theories and posting not-quite-legally-actionable calls to violence.
                  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna45465

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                  • Wolfblade
                    Wolfblade commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ooooh but remember, the left is just as bad because... they talk about using violence in self-defense against the right who has a track record of violently attacking people they dislike or disagree with.

                    Both sides are exactly the same or something.

                  • BranDawri
                    BranDawri commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Harder.
                    Pretty sure he was already well on the way there.

                • Michigan sheriff sought to seize multiple voting machines, records show

                  Aug 30 (Reuters) - A sheriff in Barry County, Michigan, already under state investigation for alleged involvement in an illegal breach of a vote-counting machine, sought warrants in July to seize other machines in an effort to prove former President Donald Trump’s claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election, documents reviewed by Reuters showed.

                  The proposed warrants sought authorization to seize vote tabulators and various election records from the offices of the Barry County and Woodland Township clerks, the documents showed. The two jurisdictions have not been previously identified as targets in the sheriff’s investigation into suspicions that machines in the county were rigged to siphon votes from Trump.

                  The warrants were submitted in July to the office of Barry County Prosecuting Attorney Julie Nakfoor Pratt, a Republican, who told Reuters she declined to endorse them because she felt the sheriff lacked sufficient evidence to support his suspicions that the machines were rigged.
                  The requests suggest Barry County Sheriff Dar Leaf, a Republican, was seeking to broaden his investigation of alleged election fraud even as he faced investigation from the state attorney general’s office.

                  Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, has identified Leaf as a target in a statewide investigation into alleged illegal breaches of vote tabulators in at least three counties.

                  Nessel last month alleged Leaf was involved in the breach of a voting machine taken without authorization in 2021 from Irving Township, another jurisdiction in Barry County. Leaf has denied wrongdoing and told Reuters that no one in his office was involved in improperly accessing the machine. Leaf’s proposed warrants also included voting machines from Irving Township.
                  Pratt, the prosecutor, told Reuters previously that she declined to endorse the warrants because “I didn’t see evidence of a crime” in the material Leaf provided in support of the requests. “I didn’t see probable cause” for seizing voting equipment, Pratt added.
                  And of course, the big tough guy thinks he should have unchecked power over everyone around him:

                  A member of the so-called “constitutional sheriffs” movement, which holds that sheriffs have supreme law enforcement authority within their counties, exceeding that of state and federal agencies, and even the U.S. president, Leaf has appeared repeatedly at events around the country organized by proponents of Trump’s rigged election claims.

                  Comment


                  • Spelling error left as is:

                    Ginni Thomas emails show she urged Wisconsin lawmakers to oveturn 2020 election

                    MADISON, Wis. (AP) — The wife of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas contacted at least two Wisconsin state lawmakers, including the chair of the Senate elections committee, urging them to overturn President Joe Biden’s 2020 election win in the tightly contested state, emails obtained Thursday by The Associated Press show.

                    Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, a conservative activist, also had sent messages to more than two dozen lawmakers in Arizona.

                    In her communications with lawmakers in both states, Thomas urged Republicans to choose their own slate of electors after the election, arguing that results giving Biden a victory in the states were marred by fraud. Despite numerous reviews, lawsuits and recounts, no widespread fraud calling into question the results has been discovered in either state.
                    But remember, Judge Thomas doesn't need to recuse himself regarding her because... he's a republican I guess, and therefore is definitely 100% above using his position for personal reasons...

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                    • https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...capitol-attack

                      You get a pardon, you get a pardon and you get a pardon! Pardons for everyone!

                      Comment


                      • Easy E
                        Easy E commented
                        Editing a comment
                        If I were one of them, I would not count on that.....

                    • https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/06/polit...gia/index.html

                      Newly obtained surveillance video shows fake Trump elector escorted operatives into Georgia county's elections office before voting machine breach

                      (CNN)A Republican county official in Georgia escorted two operatives working with an attorney for former President Donald Trump into the county's election offices on the same day a voting system there was breached, newly obtained video shows.

                      The breach is now under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and is of interest to the Fulton County District Attorney, who is conducting a wider criminal probe of interference in the 2020 election.

                      The video sheds more light on how an effort spearheaded by lawyers and others around Trump to seek evidence of voter fraud was executed on the ground from Georgia to Michigan to Colorado, often with the assistance of sympathetic local officials.
                      This will not end until a lot of people get closely acquainted with the term, "Accountability" in a very public way.

                      Comment


                      • BranDawri
                        BranDawri commented
                        Editing a comment
                        "But they were looking for fraud! That justifies breaking the rules to the point where they themselves could've committed fraud, right?"
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