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  • #46
    I just don't really accept it as a meaningful argument. I don't think anyone would argue that Johnson ignoring the ministerial code means there shouldn't be one.

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    • #47
      It is an odd line of reasoning, that because someone did something illegal, the law is meaningless and everyone should then ignore it. I’ll let you, Dear Reader, follow your own rabbit hole for where that line of poor reasoning might lead.

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      • #48
        Queen_annes_revenge If you consider Singapore to be totalitarian, then so be it. By doing so, you aren't making a case against Singapore, you are making a case in favor of totalitarianism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

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        • Queen_annes_revenge
          Queen_annes_revenge commented
          Editing a comment
          There is no case in favour of totalitarianism.

      • #49
        The point is I suppose that it shouldn't need the state to make that kind of judgement, but unfortunately not everyone is capable or willing to carry out an act for the common good (for whatever reason).

        Anyone can make a judgement based on a) the effectiveness of masks and b) I don't want to make my fellow human beings sick because of an illness I am carrying. Therefore I shall wear a mask.

        All of us carry out these assessments with everything we do, all of the time. It's an inherent component of us as human beings and the reason we have survived and prospered as a species. I suppose a lot of the time those assessments aren't loaded with political weight or ideology: Speeding a car at 100mph past a school at 8am for instance would be unconscionable for almost anyone but the deranged, psychotic or someone driving under influence or extremely stupid. And yet in the case of masks it isn't the same (and it seems so loaded for people, at least in the western world) and it stops being such a simple equation.

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        • #50
          Originally posted by Pacific View Post

          Anyone can make a judgement based on a) the effectiveness of masks and b) I don't want to make my fellow human beings sick because of an illness I am carrying.
          People are really bad at a). Especially when people spew misinformation. b) requires caring about someone other than yourself/a member of your personal group.

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          • #51
            Does QAR campaign against laws requiring people wear pants as well? This whole notion that requiring people to wear a simple mask to help limit the spread of a deadly infectious disease is some unique marker of totalitarianism is just incredibly stupid when you consider we already have laws that require seatbelts or speed limits or clothing or any other number of safety issues.

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            • Bunnies
              Bunnies commented
              Editing a comment
              No, he's all for campaigning for people to be dressed how he deems appropriate. At least in the context of Pride marches.

            • BobtheInquisitor
              BobtheInquisitor commented
              Editing a comment
              He’s pretty much stated he’s make anyone in a Pride parade wear additional clothes, not to save lives but to keep him from having to see icky things. No Totalitarianism!

          • #52
            Originally posted by Queen_annes_revenge View Post

            Have you undertaken any physical activity more arduous than just walking in one? I did a few exercises at the physio where I had to wear one and it was horrible, and I'm a serviceman in a very good state of physical fitness. They absolutely affect respiration.
            I've run assault courses in full NBC kit which was hard. A paper mask is nothing. People have been working all day in masks since madks were invented.

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            • #53
              Originally posted by nfe View Post
              I just don't really accept it as a meaningful argument. I don't think anyone would argue that Johnson ignoring the ministerial code means there shouldn't be one.
              That was not my line of reasoning. Mask mandates are not equatable to a code of conduct for politicians.

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              • #54
                Originally posted by Herzlos2 View Post

                I've run assault courses in full NBC kit which was hard. A paper mask is nothing. People have been working all day in masks since madks were invented.
                The difference here is that NBC kit actually protects you from something. However, I like your logic. We should mandate NBC suits and respirators for everyone in public in case of a chemical attack.

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                • feeder
                  feeder commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Like when your government issued gas masks to the public in WW2. I guess if the Nazis had dropped gas bombs on her city your Nan would have proudly marched through the poison fog with no mask. She's no sheep. :D

              • #55
                Originally posted by Queen_annes_revenge View Post
                Nonsense. Masks are nothing but political propaganda in order to maintain the fear, The G7 showed this last week.

                https://youtu.be/yQtQcbuO6XM

                Telling.
                Why? What's the end goal here?

                Also, I don't think many people are scared as such, they are just happy to take a basic step to help people out.

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                • #56
                  Surgeons are lucky to be alive with how long they have to wear masks...

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                  • #57
                    So when does it end?

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                    • #58
                      Originally posted by Queen_annes_revenge View Post

                      The difference here is that NBC kit actually protects you from something. However, I like your logic. We should mandate NBC suits and respirators for everyone in public in case of a chemical attack.
                      And paper masks protect others whilst not being as burdensome as an NBC kit. Whats your point?

                      Are you still adamant that everyoneveryone is being suffocated by masks?

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                      • #59
                        Originally posted by Skyth View Post
                        Surgeons are lucky to be alive with how long they have to wear masks...
                        I heard that longer operations need teams of doctors because they all die after 10 minutes of wearing masks. It's a mental line of argument.

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                        • #60
                          Originally posted by Queen_annes_revenge View Post
                          So when does it end?
                          Mask wearing? When the science says so. That's when the risk of harm is low enough that they are no longer needed.

                          Is that a difficult concept to understand?

                          As I understand it, mandatory mask wearing is (wrongly) being dropped in England later this month. I guess we'll see what happens to the infection rate after that.


                          I find the idea that masks are a totalitarian thing almost laughable. I mean, we're forced by law to do far worse things for less benefit and no-one minds.

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