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  • Originally posted by Too Hot To Trot View Post
    The new guidelines are to pull attention away from the passing of the police, crime, sentencing and courts bill.

    Once again, Boris and the tories are willing to trade lives for their own political careers.
    Yup, it passed Parliament without any ammendments:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57680917

    So I wonder if they'll actually ease the restrictions once the noise has died down.

    Comment


    • R_Squared
      R_Squared commented
      Editing a comment
      Thought this might deserve a thread of it's own, so I created one.

  • Read an interesting comment on social media just, juxtaposing the supposed 'freedom day' on July 19th, and that bill passing at the same time and what it actually means.

    Going full speed Orwell-a-head with the re-purposing of the meaning of words there.

    What I would say is that freedoms of that nature are extremely hard fought. In the same way as employee rights, union powers, social welfare and healthcare, once they are gone it seems very, very difficult to ever restore them.

    Comment


    • My province eased some restrictions over the long weekend (born on the FIRST of July ;) ) masks are now "strongly recommended" instead of required, indoor dining/ pubs are back to normal with better spacing between seats. I have my first live music show next weekend and my 2nd jab later this month. BC has one of the best rates of 1st jabs in the world, and we are rolling out the 2nd jab about 6 weeks ahead of what was initially proposed back in Feb. Things are looking up!

      Comment


      • Lawks those Lateral Flow Tests are unpleasant.

        First of the week, as it’s three days before my trip to Orkney, with another to be done on the day I travel. Such fun.

        Comment


        • And it’s clear.

          Orkney ahoy! Pending Friday’s test also being a pass.

          Comment


          • https://www.wyomingpublicmedia.org/o...laramie-county

            Unvaccinated People Are Driving The Spike In Laramie County

            The Unvaccinated are now who are driving the disease spread.

            I should care as a decent human being, and because this spread could lead to mutations; but those folks made a decision to not get vaccinated. Now, the disease is actually affecting the people who made inadvisable medical choices and I am okay.

            It is now as if Mass Shooters only killed themselves, and I am more comfortable with that outcome.

            ......I kinda of feel bad about this line of thinking, but there it is......

            Comment


            • Pacific
              Pacific commented
              Editing a comment
              I suppose the issue with that (and allowing the virus to run unchecked) is that you do have people that would like to have the vaccine, but can't because of an immune system deficiency disease and the like. So those people are vulnerable to people not having the vaccine also.

            • Haighus
              Haighus commented
              Editing a comment
              Agreed Pacific. And also people who have simply not been offered the vaccine yet by means of age.

            • Easy E
              Easy E commented
              Editing a comment
              Of course you guys are right. Like I said, I am ashamed of the thought process, but I also can acknowledge that it is there.

              In my area 1 in 4 is vaccinated, and it is not due not lack of effort to get them vaccinated.

          • An article appeared in the Lancet today, I think has the backing of several research and medical bodies and signatures of around 100 scientists in the field, warning about the complete removal of restrictions in the UK on 19th July

            https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...589-0/fulltext

            On a lighter note, I loved the CNN coverage of the UK gov's decision the other day, which was to show Boris Johnson "I'm afraid some more people will die" followed by the scene from Shrek where John Lithgow as Lord Farquad is essentially saying the same thing and "but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
            Really, the only way to respond is with satire, social media seems to have been a mix of that, plus genuine fear and anger over the past few days.

            Comment


            • The NL has seen an 7x increase in infections since getting rid of most restrictions (in about 1.5 weeks) and the government is now asking the team of government scientists if restrictions are once again needed.

              Comment


              • Chris Whitty has explained when he'll still wear a mask:

                I would wear a mask under three situations, and I would do so, particularly at this point when the epidemic is clearly significant and rising.

                And the first is in any situation which was indoors and crowded, or indoors with close proximity to other people and that is because masks help protect other people - this is a thing we do to protect other people, this is by far its principal aim.

                The second situation I’d do it is if I was required to by any competent authority. I would have no hesitation about doing that and I would consider that was a reasonable and sensible thing if they had good reason to do that.

                And the third reason is if someone else was uncomfortable if I did not wear a mask, as a point of common courtesy of course I would wear a mask so under all those circumstances I would do so.
                https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1878776.html

                That seems eminently sensible, and fits with what I'd expect from someone who knows what they are talking about.

                Has any competent authority claimed that the easing of restrictions is a good idea? I've only heard outrage.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herzlos2 View Post
                  Has any competent authority claimed that the easing of restrictions is a good idea? I've only heard outrage.
                  I think that dude from Weatherspoons and also Right Said Fred (I'm not sure which one).

                  Comment


                  • This caught my eyes:
                    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...=featured_home
                    Breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Prison after Vaccination

                    Breakthrough infections are very rare after mRNA vaccinations in prisons where weekly PCR tests were performed and the setting promotes transmission 2380 vaccinated, 27 infections (1.1%), only 17 after both doses (0.7%).

                    The kicker?
                    "All of the cases of Covid-19 [27 by PCR] were asymptomatic".

                    The question I have, though, is this: This study says 4638 people were being tested, but only 2380 results were included in the study because they were vaccinated. I didn't see any PCR results of the remaining 2258 subjects (assuming they were unvax'ed??). Wouldn't that be a control group, or at this point we're only interested in the effectiveness of those receiving the vaccine?

                    Comment


                    • Queen_annes_revenge
                      Queen_annes_revenge commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Were the positive tests cultured in a lab to determine whether they were actual cases? Because the terminology seems to have been adjusted so we now incorrectly conflate positive tests with cases.

                  • Were the positive tests cultured in a lab to determine whether they were actual cases? Because the terminology seems to have been adjusted so we now incorrectly conflate positive tests with cases.
                    The specificity of PCR tests is effectively 100%- the false positive rate is basically non-existent, according to the ONS when they have reviewed the data. The sensitivity is also high, at about ~95% with good technique.

                    A positive swab is near enough proof of an infection at some point. It gets a bit tricky when people are still shedding virus from an old infection, but the swab is still accurately detecting COVID, just old COVID.

                    We haven't been culturing the virus ever in a healthcare setting for routine diagnosis, that ain't practical. Culturing viruses is extremely difficult.

                    Link here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...nd-specificity

                    Comment


                    • COVID deaths are now starting to increase again in the UK. The cases and hospitalisations have already been rising.

                      Hopefully it is just a blip, but sadly I doubt it based on earlier waves. It shouldn't be at the same rate as before though with the high level of vaccinations.

                      Link: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

                      I also wonder what role repeat infections are going to have going forward. I've now come across several people who have been reinfected with coronavirus.

                      Another area that I think will be important to look at is excess deaths in 2021. In 2020 they were almost entirely attributable to direct COVID deaths. In 2021 I would not be surprised to see an increase in deaths from cancer as people have been presenting really late with cancer symptoms so that cancers are often too advanced to cure, and some of those with curable cancers have had curative treatment delayed to the point their cancer has become incurable- largely indirect effects of COVID.

                      Comment


                      • Pacific
                        Pacific commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Out of interest Haighus what kind of gap was there between the people getting re-infected?

                      • Haighus
                        Haighus commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Of the cases I can remember, one was ~5 months, the other ~7 months. The latter was in a young person too.

                        Neither was vaccinated.

                    • I see a lot of rhetoric being thrown with respect to mask usage, so I'm curious. Let's for a moment, venture into hypothetical land.

                      While here, let us suppose that the science on the topic of mask use and covid is clear, and that masks of all kinds are in fact worthless. AND that the various world governments, are mandating individuals wear masks, knowing they aren't effective.

                      Why would they do this? What is the purpose of this? What is the insidious dystopian end goal of these supposed totalitarian regimes in putting cloth masks on people?
                      Last edited by KaptainWalrus; 07-09-2021, 04:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • SilverbackWookie
                        SilverbackWookie commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Honestly, I don't think governments would mandate that if it's clear that they don't work.

                        For me as s a mask-skeptic, the issue is it isn't all that clear one way or another. You can pick and choose any retrospective studies as evidence supporting whichever side you're on this debate.

                        I just wish the government PR folks would just do a better job that the mandate is out of abundance of caution. I think presented in that fashion, they'd get better buy-in in mask usage.

                      • KaptainWalrus
                        KaptainWalrus commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Sure, I can understand a healthy dose of skepticism. That should be the norm in this day and age.

                        But in my hypothetical, we have stipulated we are dealing with a state who knows there is no scientific basis for the mask. Yet, they are still mandating them. Why would they do this?

                      • SilverbackWookie
                        SilverbackWookie commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Given your hypothetical. I have no idea why/how they can justify that.

                    • Originally posted by KaptainWalrus View Post
                      I see a lot of rhetoric being thrown with respect to mask usage, so I'm curious. Let's for a moment, venture into hypothetical land.

                      While here, let us suppose that the science on the topic of mask use and covid is clear, and that masks of all kinds are in fact worthless. AND that the various world governments, are mandating individuals wear masks, knowing they aren't effective.

                      Why would they do this? What is the purpose of this? What is the insidious dystopian end goal of this supposed totalitarian regime in putting cloth masks on people?
                      I've been told (by the same person at different times since the start of all this) that it's: to weaken us through lack of oxygen; to break our spirit and dehumanize each other; to prepare us for the upcoming Sharia law where everyone wears burkas; and to brainwash children so they don't know what smiling is, because we won't be allowed to smile under the communists.

                      Comment


                      • KaptainWalrus
                        KaptainWalrus commented
                        Editing a comment
                        There's a lot to unpack there. But I'm curious to know more about this communistic desire to install a fundamentalist religious legal system....

                      • feeder
                        feeder commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I very early on stopped trying to apply rationality to these 'nuggets of truth'; there is none.

                        Basically, she's one of life's perpetual losers, never caught a break, and a lifelong magnet for bad sorts of people. Being a Qultist gives her (ironically) a sense of power and control. That none of it makes any sense doesn't matter, it's the hit of 'knowing the truth that the sheep don't know' that she craves.
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