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The beginning of the end for Roe v Wade?

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  • The beginning of the end for Roe v Wade?

    So most have probably heard about the Texas 6 week heartbeat law abortion ban and the $10.000 lawsuit clause.

    Well the Supreme Court has decided not to stop the implementation until it reaches their court. This decision is perceived to be the writing on the wall for the end of Roe v Wade, given the nature of the law.

    It certainly seems hard to argue with that perception.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58416805

  • #2
    I wouldn't be surprised. This is the Republicans' wet dream, especially since they have so heavily packed SCOTUS.

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    • #3
      It certainly seems that they're not easing into it, this is one of the harshest anti-abortion laws so far, that is also being allowed to go ahead by the SC. Given that this law seems to thrive on mob justice like practices, and gives no exception to rape or incest victims, there will be some pretty horrible stories coming out before a final decision is even made.

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      • #4
        Religion poisons everything.

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        • #5
          Is this about that stupid law that can let anyone sue if someone else had an abortion?

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          • #6
            Yep. Or if someone help get an abortion (Including driving)

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            • #7
              Jurisdictionally, what happens if you help someone drive over a state line to somewhere it isn't illegal?

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              • #8
                In practice, how is this going to affect real life? How hard is it to leave the state for an abortion? I imagine there is a whopping fee for an abortion, so adding in a significant journey means the less well off will suffer more from this.

                And suing an accomplice? What if the doctor, friend and other accessories to the 'crime' are from another state (or even country)?

                Just how effective is this legislation?

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                • #9
                  You helped them in Texas and will have to defend yourself in court.

                  If you win, you get nothing (not even court costs). If you lose, you pay $10k plus opposing court costs.

                  And since this is a civil rather than criminal proceeding, beyond a reasonable doubt does not apply.

                  So basically, an abortion clinic can be sued for every woman that visits their office and buried in legal fees.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RedChimera View Post
                    In practice, how is this going to affect real life? How hard is it to leave the state for an abortion? I imagine there is a whopping fee for an abortion, so adding in a significant journey means the less well off will suffer more from this.

                    And suing an accomplice? What if the doctor, friend and other accessories to the 'crime' are from another state (or even country)?

                    Just how effective is this legislation?
                    The average travel distance to leave the state is 300-400km. The real problem is that large vigilante groups just start up lawsuits to shut down services and support now. Winning might give you 10k, but you won't get penalized for losing. So you can drag down support and services with the financial cost of frivolous lawsuits.

                    Most abortion providers are stopping their services in Texas as this moment, as it became functionally illegal. The legislation is effective in harming access, but perhaps less in 'earning' 10k.
                    Last edited by Disciple of Fate; 09-02-2021, 01:19 PM.

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                    • BranDawri
                      BranDawri commented
                      Editing a comment
                      So how, exactly, does someone else getting or helping a legal abortion result in you needing to get $10k off them?

                      I fail to see any way that could damage you.

                  • #11
                    Err. Ok.

                    I mean, I've got loads of hypothetical questions, but it just seem absolute bonkers.

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Skyth View Post
                      So basically, an abortion clinic can be sued for every woman that visits their office and buried in legal fees.
                      Are there any laws preventing spurious lawsuits or is that an actual possibility?

                      Are they going to at least try and teach proper sex ed to prevent people getting pregnant in the first place?

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                    • #13
                      This law is really strange and SCOTUS' majority wasn't ruled on merits.

                      The majority opinion reads:
                      “In reaching this conclusion, we stress that we do not purport to resolve definitively any jurisdictional or substantive claim in the applicants’ lawsuit,” - “In particular, this order is not based on any conclusion about the constitutionality of Texas’s law, and in no way limits other procedurally proper challenges to the Texas law, including in Texas state courts.”

                      I think this novelty the court mentioned is the fact that the state government does not have the authority to enforce the ban directly or indirectly. Rather, the measure empowers private citizens to sue medical practitioners or others who perform or help a woman undergo an abortion after six weeks. The courts typically have means to issue injunctions with the State is the one enforcing the statute, but courts don't enjoin all of private citizens (ie, Texas), nor they can't enjoin the Civil Court's judges (as they're a non-party).

                      I suspect when the first civil case is filed there would be a flurry of lawsuits/appeals when there are named litigants.

                      But, it does cast a shadow on the Roe v. Wade decision when the upcoming term begins in October.

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                      • #14
                        Sure, but the fact that they haven't blocked it means that they won't dismiss it out of hand when it comes to the court. The key fact is that they could have blocked it until they could rule on it, but they won't, while offering no real reason on a law that is in direct conflict.

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                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Herzlos2 View Post

                          Are there any laws preventing spurious lawsuits or is that an actual possibility?

                          Are they going to at least try and teach proper sex ed to prevent people getting pregnant in the first place?
                          No, as most anti-abortion groups also oppose sex ed and contraceptives, the two things proven to reduce abortions by statistics. This is not about abortions at all.

                          Democrats should do a similar law in New York City, only focused on helping someone get a firearm.

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