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  • No, you simply judge if you *personally* agree that an argument is based on logical principles. If you judge against that, you drop a note to state such.

    Is that a more “fair” assessment, according to your judgement?

    Comment


    • nfe
      nfe commented
      Editing a comment
      No. Or I'd be posting far more comments. I'm primarily concerned with flagging repeated arguments without acknowledgement of rebuttals, blanket assertions without any evidence provided, claiming sources explicitly say the opposite of what they do etc. That someone reads the evidence differently to me is not deserving of moderation.

      In any case, this thread is for gathering opinions of how moderation should work, and feedback on how it is currently operating. I don't think it's the correct forum for moderators to defend or justify their approaches, nor present their future approaches. That'll be for the 'campaign' for mod elections, I guess.

    • GreatBigTree
      GreatBigTree commented
      Editing a comment
      So this is *not* the thread to hold moderators accountable? We can state our opinions, but mods shouldn’t feel the need to reply to those accusations?

      Man, that’s a beautiful thing. I like that you’ve created a responsibility avoidance machine. It’s genius in its simplicity.

      Point to the support as being successful, and disregard criticisms because that’s not the mod’s problem.

      Sublime.

    • nfe
      nfe commented
      Editing a comment
      It's a thread to hash out how users want moderation to work. We're asking questions and paying attention to it and it filters into how moderation is practiced.

      Nothing I've said suggests we disregard criticism and I would ask you to stop misrepresenting my posts. I said I don't think it's a place for us to defend ourselves. That's not the same as saying it is not a place to criticise moderation practices - and in fact I said the opposite. It is useful to hear what people think of moderation and how it can be adapted or improved. I don't think it is useful to turn it into a mod-by-mod cross examination with a single user. It's just clutter.

  • They are enforcing the decorum rules better than you did my guy. Your less than a week of moderation showed us a wide range of things to not do(like give a user free reign to break decorum rules when it was directed at you specifically) and they are learning from that.

    Soon GBT will give you a deadline on when those rules are in place and if you don't follow through, he is now the ruler of the forum.

    Comment


    • So I can criticize, but I’m not allowed to direct that criticism at anyone. So I can’t directly point out where the flaws are, only that there are flaws?

      And that no one else is choosing to criticize, while they have no protections, is considered evidence that you have the silent support of the group. That an individual stands for the “deserved” s of other people (not the rights) is seen as a threat to the personal power of those with power?

      I do do not want to run the place. I do not want to own it. I do not want the responsibility of doing so. It is a thankless and fruitless endeavour.

      I want the place to be run well, though. I want to see the core value of open and honest sharing of ideas to be the culture we pursue, and that is currently not being done.

      You don’t have to interact with me. No one here is required to interact with anyone. It’s all voluntary. Feel free to disregard me. How could I stop you? It is currently a free-for-all, while a handful of people have unfettered power. That they pretend is somehow democratic? The failure of people to see that makes it no less correct. Why think critically when you’re getting what you want? Why advocate change when you can freely insult and deride anyone that the mob doesn’t feel deserves protection?

      This continues to be a farce. First as tragedy, later as farce. Isn’t that how the saying goes? We didn’t know better, the first time around. That was the tragedy. Now this... this is the farce. Knowing better, but dressing it up to look like something it isn’t.

      Comment


      • R_Squared
        R_Squared commented
        Editing a comment
        Its pretty obvious from your posts that you only consider it a "farce" because your approach was categorically rejected.

      • nfe
        nfe commented
        Editing a comment
        Assuming the first paragraph is directed at me, it is a further misrepresentation. Please stop doing this. You are free to direct criticism at specific persons and specific actions. I have in no way suggested otherwise.

    • Originally posted by GreatBigTree View Post
      I want the place to be run well, though. I want to see the core value of open and honest sharing of ideas to be the culture we pursue, and that is currently not being done.
      So, you don't want to run it, you just want to tell everyone else how to run it and will complain if the mods/admins don't let you walk all over them then.

      Comment


      • BobtheInquisitor
        BobtheInquisitor commented
        Editing a comment
        Why doesn’t Megatron follow Starscream’s counsel? demands Starscream.

    • GreatBigTree I personally think you just don't want this to succeed, but I will entertain this.

      So far you have just been whining. Whining, complaining with no real reason or fix to the problem. You haven't really outlined the issues here. We have no examples of when this awful thing has happened to you or other posters. How is nfe, the one you seem to have issues with, being biased? Give some examples. Don't come back with "I don't really care what you think you don't have to interact with me" weak stuff. Actually make a post standing up for yourself and present some evidence here. You aren't going to win a court of opinion, which is what this is even though you don't give a flying fuck what the user base thinks though you are making a huge show in front of everybody that you do, with vague "it happens all the time" comments. I don't think anybody is backing you up because we don't know what you are referencing here.

      We are all confused by your entire argument. It makes no sense and we don't really know what you are complaining about, specifically.

      Comment


      • Well, how about a poll? I'm not sure how to make that happen.

        The poll question would be thus. Is the following post, by the owner of the site, an acceptable one? From this thread...

        COVID prevention measure - Forums (etcforums.com)

        Is this type of personal attack on a poster acceptable behaviour, that anyone on the site should be able to post as well?

        "His argument is mask=authoritarian=bad. In another thread he argues that a similar clothing mandate is good, freedom to be lgbt=bad. He hasn’t yet demonstrated that totalitarianism is bad, nor that it is his real concern. Considering his descriptions of people who follow laws to protect others, science as a religion, etc., are all thinly veiled personal attacks against anyone who sees the world differently from himself, and seeing his absolute refusal to address sources and logical arguments, my argument seems like something that may possibly get through to his particular type of reasoning. And if not, calling a bad faith shitposter on his own hypocrisy at least helps keep things in perspective."

        That way we could get a measurable feeling of how the mob feels?

        Comment


        • Skyth
          Skyth commented
          Editing a comment
          Not a personal attack, but an accurate picture of the user's posting habits.

        • GreatBigTree
          GreatBigTree commented
          Editing a comment
          R_Squared May I interpret that as seconding the motion?
          Last edited by GreatBigTree; 07-03-2021, 07:49 PM.

        • BobtheInquisitor
          BobtheInquisitor commented
          Editing a comment
          His moral guidelight is that government infringement is bad, even when preventing measurable harm. Then he argues government infringement is good when preventing…no measurable harm. If I made arguments as at odds with each other as those, I would expect and even want someone to call me out on such a blatant failure to follow my own stated core principles. Either that or I would be arguing disingenuously and deserve to be called for that.

      • May I have a seconder, for this poll request? What better way to stick it in my face when the majority is shown to support this? What an almighty I told you so!

        There are supporters of “Direct Democracy” are there not? This is a chance to show the power of direct democracy! Please second the motion.

        There were 7 people that “liked” the post. Surely at *least* one of them has the courage to fly their colours in public? Please second the motion.

        Our moderation team has clearly got a finger on the pulse of the community. They know how the public will vote. Surely by now I’ve ruffled enough feathers to prod one of them into seconding this, if just to shut me up? Please second the motion.

        If the majority of (anonymous) voters approve of the post, I’ll request a banning. Hell, I’ll put my user name and password out for everyone to have... if the vote shows that the majority of voters approve. Want to get rid of GBT? Please second the motion.

        Comment


        • No one wants to second it because no one agrees with you. And you won't "shut up" even if someone does second your stupid motion, and you don't even need a "second" to start your damn poll. And I seriously doubt you'd give out your password as you're clearly not a person of your word based on how you're incapable of accepting feedback. You're a stubborn, bullheaded idiot who's throwing a tantrum because RiTides made one good choice and didn't pass the forum off to you, so now you're trying to bully the new owners into running it exactly how you want.

          Just shut up already and go start your own forum if you're so certain it would flourish better than this one. I'll eagerly await for it to be infested with bigots like Grey so I can say "told you so." Or I would, but I don't think you will because that would mean having an objective standard of being wrong you can't run from, like when you claimed that unconditional surrender was a "compromise" or when dreadwinter called you out when you said were "had to wait weeks" as a mod to do anything.

          Comment


          • Dreadwinter You’ve made no secret of your desire to see me gone. This is your opportunity to prove me wrong *and* get me to leave. Voluntarily even!

            BobtheInquisitor You show no regret for your post. Why not second the motion and put your money where your mouth is?

            Wolfblade No love lost between us, is there? You’ve already publicly declared your support for that post. It would be easy to get rid of me here and now. Just second the motion.

            Comment


            • BobtheInquisitor
              BobtheInquisitor commented
              Editing a comment
              I haven’t been following your every post. What poll?

          • Hey, you know what? I have a webserver and I'm not afraid to use it! We don't all agree on what the moderation on the forum should look like, we could create a couple of different forums, each with a different admin team. It would only be a temporary solution (I would have to restrict access to those knowing a password because bots, BOTS, FUCKING BOTS and automated attacks targeting vulnerabilities in PhpBB), but it could work to see the which moderation style give which results.
            Also you'd have to deal with sucky url because not buying a domain name for you guys ?.
            Who wants that?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GreatBigTree View Post
              Wolfblade No love lost between us, is there? You’ve already publicly declared your support for that post. It would be easy to get rid of me here and now. Just second the motion.
              No. You're trying to drum up authority you do not have and do not need. Just make your stupid poll instead of begging for an endorsement so you don't feel alone.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GreatBigTree View Post
                Well, how about a poll? I'm not sure how to make that happen.
                I did it ?
                https://www.etcforums.com/forum/next...acceptable-one

                Comment


                • I genuinely didn’t know that I could make my own polls. Thought that was an admin thing.

                  Comment


                  • Well now you know :). It's a feature available on most forums.

                    Comment


                    • Well, I asked for a second. And I was willing to live with the results of the poll made. Fuck it. If people aren’t willing to have their name associated with their vote, so be it. Bob says he doesn’t care how people vote. I’ll take him at his word.

                      It’s 7:36 pm, Saturday night. Regulars probably check in once per week. I’ll abide by the results one week from today.

                      Comment


                      • BobtheInquisitor
                        BobtheInquisitor commented
                        Editing a comment
                        As admin I’m going to throw my weight around here and correct this unacceptable post.

                        The deadline must be 9 o’clock on a Saturday. Piano Man rules apply. It’s 9 o’clock on a Saturday when the regular crowd shuffles in.

                      • GreatBigTree
                        GreatBigTree commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Lulz. Works for me. 9:00 next Saturday it is. ?
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